Here is a message from a reporter for the Cleveland Plain Dealer who claims that the newspaper’s story about a person with an 848 credit score is accurate. However, based on the message, the story appears to be inaccurate.
What you won't see on Twitter
The article states that a credit score disclosure–with nonsense about a person’s 848 credit score being higher than itself–was provided by a credit bureau. But, the message above indicates that the disclosure came from a credit card issuer.
[continued from creditscoring.com. Last email (to Rupert Murdoch): “… what are you doing about my comments that you removed?”]
From: Blumenthal, Karen
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 1:41 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com; Henderson, Julie ( Newscorp )
Subject: RE: credit score, Credit utilization, Wall Street Journal, 2012-12-01
Greg,
I appreciate the feedback.
I have written several times about credit scores and in some of those stories, i have gone into more detail about the “amounts owed” category. In fact, as I’m sure you know, all of the FICO categories have several factors in them.
In this case, however, the focus was on the traits of high scorers, not the broad components of the credit scores. I have only 800 words a column, sometimes less, and a lot of ground to cover, so I cannot cover every detail every time, as much as I would like to. My goal here was simply to underscore that credit use, or amounts owed, come into play in a more significant way than, say, credit history and that the 7% use number was rather surprising.
To answer your question about the use of available credit, one-third or 30% are common rules of thumb offered by those in the business as a guide for consumers who want to know where the broad cut-off lines are. Changing your credit use is one of the fastest and easiest ways to impact a credit score quickly–especially when compared with credit history or missed payments–and i think it’s important to share that with readers.
Thanks for taking the time to write.
best,
Karen
From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 2:58 PM
To: Karen Blumenthal, columnist, Getting Going, Wall Street Journal, News Corporation
Subject: RE: credit score, Credit utilization, Wall Street Journal, 2012-12-01 II
It is a math error.
Since it is only part of the 30 percent “Amounts owed” category, then how can “Credit utilization” account for—as you claim—30 percent of the calculation?
The sum of the other items in the category does not equal zero.
—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
Edit, December 14, 2012: Fair Isaac invalidated the link from the words “Credit utilization” above by removing the page that was located at the internet address http://www.scoreinfo.org/FICO-Scores/Score-Ingredients.aspx. The same information about the so-called credit utilization is now at http://www.scoreinfo.org/FICO-Scores/Pages/Score-Ingredients.aspx.
(see “950” on the Associated Press website)
From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 10:49 AM
To: Bill Marimow, editor, Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia Media Network Inc.; Reid Kanaley, columnist, Philadelphia Inquirer; Al Heavens, real estate columnist, Philadelphia Inquirer
Cc: Laura D. Adams, personal finance expert, Quick and Dirty Tips; Stacy Johnson, CPA, executive producer, publisher, president, journalist, Money Talks News; Jeff Gelles, columnist, Philadelphia Inquirer; Gail MarksJarvis, personal finance columnist, Chicago Tribune; Sam Zell, Tribune Company
Subject: RE: correction policy, Philadelphia Inquirer II
Now, you published: “The most common credit score issued is the FICO, named for Fair Isaac Co., which developed the mathematical formula. Rankings are from 300 to 950: The higher the number, the lower the loan-default risk.”
However, according to Fair Isaac, FICO scores range from 300 to 850.
Please reply with a link to your correction.
Also, today, please answer the questions below from over a month ago, and make sure that Mr. Hall gets this message.
—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
[previous message attached]
From: Greg Fisher, Page A2
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:19 PM
To: Robert O. Weagley, associate professor and department chair, CFP program director, College of Human Environmental Sciences, University of Missouri; Cynthia E. Crawford, extension professional & Family Financial Education specialist, CO-CPD, Saline Co. and Central Missouri Region, Saline County MU Extension Center, University of Missouri
Cc: Gilbert Bailon, editor in chief, St. Louis Post-Dispatch; Jim Gallagher business reporter and columnist, St. Louis Post-Dispatch; Janet LaFon, specialist, Family Financial Education, Southwest Region, Jasper Co. MU Extension Center, University of Missouri
Subject: RE: FW: El Dorado Springs Sun, We Are the 98 Percent
Well, if that is the case, then who in the world told you that only “about 2% of people have a score of 800 or more”?
That’s enough to take away a man’s will to live!
http://pfp.missouri.edu/financial/documents/MYFICO.pdf#page=9
Name an employer who uses credit scores—just one.
—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
From: James Gallagher, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 2:26 PM
To: Greg Fisher. Page A2
Subject: RE: FW: El Dorado Springs Sun, vs. St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Dear Mr. Fisher: This seems to be an issue between you and the University of Missouri. This newspaper is not involved.
Jim Gallagher
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
[PHONE NUMBER]
“Readers should never be forced to wonder what is being corrected. They shouldn’t be left guessing where the error occurred.” – St. Louis Post-Dispatch Corrections Policy in 2008
From: Weagley, Robert O.
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:03 AM
To: ‘Greg Fisher’
Subject: RE: FW: El Dorado Springs Sun, footnote in testimony
Mr. Fisher – We publish our Financial Tip of the Week on Friday mornings. We will rewrite the piece you are concerned about with wording similar to what is highlighted below, when it is my turn again in the cycle. I don’t know what else we can do, nor do I fully understand what it is that you think we should do.
There is nothing wrong with employers looking at your credit score, if you give them permission.
– Rob Weagley
From: Greg Fisher, PageA2.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:08 AM
To: Gilbert Bailon, editor in chief, St. Louis Post-Dispatch; Jim Gallagher business reporter and columnist, St. Louis Post-Dispatch; Steve Giegerich, business reporter, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Cc: Mary E. Junck, chairman, president and CEO; chairman, Executive Committee, Lee Enterprises; Warren Buffett, CEO, Berkshire Hathaway (via M. Reilly, Omaha World-Herald); Kimball Long, owner, publisher, El Dorado Springs Sun; Nellie Lamers, family financial edcuation specialist, Taney County, Southwest Region, University of Missouri; Robert O. Weagley, associate professor and department chair, CFP program director, college of Human Environmental Sciences, University of Missouri; Dan Iannicola, Jr.
Subject: RE: FW: El Dorado Springs Sun, vs. St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Recently, I beat my head against a wall trying to get a straight answer from some wacky thing in your state called Mizzou.
Then, I remembered that, three years ago, I corresponded with your organization about a couple of your of items. Subsequently, you made corrections (but you put them on internet pages—separate from the actual articles’ internet pages—where they hardly do any good).
Anyway, could you find out what is going on in Columbia?
What is your correction policy, by the way?
—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
From: Lamers, Nellie J.
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:28 PM
To: Greg Fisher (greg@pagea2.com)
Cc: Weagley, Robert O.; Procter, Brenda
Subject: RE: FW: El Dorado Springs Sun, credit score, employers, FreeScore.com
Mr. Fisher~
Robert Weagley, Ph.D., Department Chair, Personal Financial Planning, University of Missouri, will be releasing a new article about this topic on the 28th.
Also, Brenda Procter, State Consumer & Family Economics Specialist, University of Missouri Extension, spoke with Chi Chi Wu at the National Consumer Law Center. Wu said, “Although the credit reporting industry claims they do not sell credit scores to employers, there is nothing in the law to prohibit employers from obtaining a credit score if you give them written permission.”
I will let you know when Dr. Weagley’ s article is released- thanks~
Nellie
From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:50 AM
To: Kimball Long, owner, publisher, El Dorado Springs Sun; Kenny Long, owner, editor, El Dorado Springs Sun; Lisa Schlichtman, executive editor, Cassville Democrat, Rust Communications; Gary W. Rust, chairman, Rust Communications (Cassville Democrat)
Cc: Margot Freeman Saunders, Of Counsel, National Consumer Law Center; Brenda Procter, state specialist & instructor, Personal Financial Planning, College of Human Environmental Sciences, University of Missouri; Chi Chi Wu, expert, consumer credit issues ranging from credit cards to medical debt to fair credit reporting, & staff attorney, National Consumer Law Center; Chris Koster, attorney general, State of Missouri (via N. Gonder); Dean Mills, professor and dean, School of Journalism, University of Missouri; Nellie Lamers, specialist, Family Financial Education, Taney County, Southwest Region, University of Missouri; Robert O. Weagley, associate professor and department chair, CFP program director, college of Human Environmental Sciences, University of Missouri; Dan Iannicola, Jr.; Timothy M. Wolfe, president, University of Missouri; David R. Bradley, chairman, Board of Curators, University of Missouri System; Brandon Ellington, representative, District 41, House of Representatives, State of Missouri; Leonard Hughes IV, representative, District 42, House of Representatives, State of Missouri; Press office, U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau; Jay Nixon, governor, Missouri; Mark Horvit associate professor, executive director, Investigative Reporters and Editors, School of Journalism, University of Missouri
Subject: RE: FW: El Dorado Springs Sun, footnote in testimony
There is nothing in the law to prevent me from pitching a no-hitter in the World Series, either (I just don’t work for such low pay). There is no law preventing me from wearing green hats. And, believe it or not (as incomplete as the law is) there is not even anything in it about unicorns, zombies, little green men nor keeping monkeys from flying out of my nose.
Indeed, there is nothing in the law to prohibit employers from obtaining a credit score. But, inversely, if some Missouri legislators had their way, they would have actually changed the law to make it legal, expressly, to use credit scores in employment. Perhaps they believe the hype.
This hysteria has gone on for years. In 2005, a representative of the NCLC provided this testimony to Congress: “In some situations, workers are simply deemed ineligible for employment if they do not have adequate credit scores. In others, credit information and scores are checked on an ongoing basis by employers, and workers can be fired for negative information on their credit report, or even low credit scores.”
Also in 2005, with others, Ms. Wu signed a document that states, “Without a Disaster Information Shield, FICO scoring models could pose an affirmative barrier to the efforts of disaster victims to regain, and maintain, financial stability, access reasonably priced credit, and even regain employment.”
(Even is a well-worn cliché in this mess: Outrage at an invisible bogeyman.)
Earlier this year, I made a whistle stop train tour to get their attention. Today, the first signer of that document is an associate director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
But before 2005, in USA Today, Gannett published, “More employers are screening job applicants by credit score.”
Unfortunately, the reporter is dead. His source material may be unavailable. Subsequently, regarding another item, the same media organization published, “An earlier version of this editorial incorrectly suggested that employers look at job applicants’ credit scores.”
Regarding consumer reports American citizens can obtain for no charge, the Missouri Attorney General states, “You will not see your credit rating (or credit score).”
This is item 5 in the attorney’s general Consumer Credit Quiz:
Your credit rating affects your ability to:
The result of answering “All of the above“ is this:
Correct!
All of the above. Your credit history may be considered by potential insurers, landlords and even employers.
Even employers.
This is not about credit scores, and it is not a game; at stake is something fundamental. This is about media accuracy, errors and corrections. It is also about inaccurate information, its origin, its consequences in a democracy and common sense.
Our First Amendment right ends at falsely shouting fire in a theatre.
Where do you publish corrections?
—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:16 AM
To: Allan Block, chairman, Block Communications (via K. Franck); John Robinson Block, publisher and editor-in-chief, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Cc: Heather Murray, manager, Education and Resource Development, Advantage Credit Counseling Service, Inc.; Susan Keating, president & CEO, National Foundation for Credit Counseling; Tim Grant, reporter, personal finance, housing and banking, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Subject: credit score, inquiries, Block Communications, Advantage Credit Counseling Service (dba Consumer Credit Counseling Service)
See this message and your response at http://pagea2.com/pittsburgh-post-gazette-corrections-page-blank-block-communications/.
You published
Also, be aware that the employer must have your written authorization to check your credit report prior to doing so. You can refuse the credit check, but it’s likely you will be ruled out as a candidate for the position. The credit check also will show up as a hard inquiry on your credit report, which may have a slight impact on your credit score.
In the comment section of the article, Chuck Burnett of www.creditreporting.com points out, correctly, that credit report inquiries made by employers do not affect credit scores.
Who is your source?
On your corrections and clarifications page, you state: “Corrections and clarifications of work published on post-gazette.com can be found posted to the bottom of the stories. The text of those corrections and clarifications will also be displayed here for several days for reader convenience.”
The space below that passage is blank.
—
Greg Fisher
Page A
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
From: Greg Fisher
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:36 PM
To: Tim Grant, reporter, personal finance, housing and banking, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, anonymity
Please answer the question. Or, do you intend to use anonymous sources?
—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
From: Tim Grant
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:52 PM
To: greg@creditscoring.com
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Greg — Sorry for the very delayed response, but I’m been swamped with urgent assignments and projects. From what I understand based on the research I’ve done, a bankruptcy or a very low credit score can impact a person’s security clearance for certain government jobs. Tim
Tim Grant
Staff Writer
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
(412) [phone] (work)
(412) [fax] (fax)
[email address]
http://www.post-gazette.com
From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@creditscoring.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:03 AM
To: Tim Grant
Subject: RE: credit score, employers, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Regarding a citizen’s credit score, you wrote, “It affects every area of personal finances as far as the interest rates paid on loans, premiums for insurance and in some cases whether or not someone qualifies to work in certain career fields.”
Who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?
—
Greg Fisher
The Credit Scoring Site
creditscoring.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:14 PM
To: Bill Marimow, editor, Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia Media Network Inc.; Reid Kanaley, columnist, Philadelphia Inquirer
Cc: Laura D. Adams, personal finance expert, Quick and Dirty Tips; Stacy Johnson, CPA, executive producer, publisher, president, journalist, Money Talks News; Jeff Gelles, columnist, Philadelphia Inquirer; Gail MarksJarvis, personal finance columnist, Chicago Tribune; Sam Zell, Tribune Company
Subject: correction policy, Philadelphia Inquirer
Mr. Marimow, please forward this message to Robert Hall of Interstate General Media L.L.C.
See this message and your response at https://www.pagea2.com/correction-policy-philadelphia-inquirer/
You published, “The Money Girl website includes this post by Laura Adams, with tips for raising a score.”
Your link leads to a page on which Adams states, “Your score indicates your creditworthiness to potential lenders, banks, landlords, insurance companies, and even to some employers, for instance.”
Your link to MoneyTalksNews goes to a page that states, “Much like your final grade summarized your command of a course in school, your credit score is the distillation of everything in your credit history,” Stacy [Johnson] wrote in 5 Reasons We Need Free Credit Scores Now.”
The link in that sentence leads to a page where Johnson claims: “It’s no exaggeration to say your credit score can change your life. This single number can determine whether you get a job or own a home.”
In another article, your reporter wrote, “There’s no simple answer, because lenders and others who use credit scores – such as insurance companies and employers – use the data differently.”
And finally, you also published, “Because employers and landlords have access to the scores, they can determine who gets an apartment or even a job.”
Employers do not use credit scores because they cannot even get them. Who is your source regarding credit score use by employers?
What is your correction policy?
—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 1:38 PM
To: Sam Zell, Tribune Company; Sam Zell, Tribune Company (alt); Corrections desk, Chicago Tribune
Cc: Jane Hirt, vice president, managing editor, Chicago Tribune; CTC-YourMoney; Margaret Holt, standards editor, Chicago Tribune; Anthony Sprauve, US Consumer / FICO Score Public Relations, Fair Isaac; Craig Watts, Fair Isaac; Northwest Chicago Film Society; Nina Metz, reporter, film, TV and theater, Chicago Tribune; Daniel Bortz, reporter/editor, Personal Finance, U.S. News & World Report; Mortimer B. Zuckerman, chairman, Executive Committee, editor-in-chief, U.S. News & World Report (via Liz Putze); Julie Diop; Ilyce Glink; Luke Knowles, FreeShipping.org; Kate Forgach, blogger, FreeShipping.org; Felix Salmon, blogger, Reuters; Katie Leslie, reporter, Atlanta Journal-Constitution; Marcus K. Garner, reporter, Atlanta Journal-Constitution; Jane Scholz, editor, McClatchy Tribune Information Services ; Gary B. Pruitt, chairman, president and CEO, McClatchy Company (via E. Lintecum); Gerould W. Kern, senior vice-president and editor, Chicago Tribune
Subject: RE: credit score, utilization ratio, Chicago Tribune II, You can’t have it both ways
Not so fast, Mr. Zell.
The numbers you use for credibility are also your downfall. While you may be satisfied with the column, you did not say that it is accurate. Who was your source for that part of the column?
Now, here is the big question: If 30 percent of the FICO score depends on the so-called credit utilization ratio (an inaccurate notion), then what percentage depends on the Number of accounts with balances?
A long time ago, I spent a year dealing with that issue and I am sure that the percentage is a positive number. According to your logic, however, it is zero.
Same for Amount owing on specific types of accounts.
Same for Lack of a specific type of balance, in some cases.
Same for Amount owing on accounts.
So, your response fails to address a simple math problem. The ratio accounts for something less than 30 percent of the score, so your statement is incorrect.
The impossibility of your utilization ratio claim notwithstanding, perhaps you could discuss with Fair Isaac (to whom you refer as FICO) your multiple inaccurate articles about employers using credit scores. The company has no expertise on the matter (since, to my knowledge, it does not sell consumer reports to anybody but consumers), however, it has significant influence over media. Fair Isaac certainly has Reuters snowed. Asked to explain its public statement about pre-employment screening, Fair Isaac replied, “The mention you cited from the myFICO video clip was based on anecdotal information gleaned from public sources such as published articles.”
Perhaps they got it from you. Years after the FICO score company stated that employers use credit scores, that claim—based on a silly rumor—has been debunked. But it lives on at the Chicago Tribune.
In one place you published, “Because employers and landlords have access to the scores, it can determine who gets an apartment or even a job.”
On the contrary, in another place, you published: “Similar to the reports that a consumer can obtain for free each year through credit-reporting agencies, employers receive a report that lists debt. The reports do not, however, give an applicant’s credit score.”
Yet, in another place, you published, “When you decide to purchase a car or house, or even rent an apartment or apply for a job, your credit score matters.”
Consumer reporting agency Experian states: “Employers never get a credit score. Unfortunately, that is a very common misperception.”
There are other examples. In one, a columnist made an honorable correction in a subsequent column (dated Independence Day, no less), but it doesn’t seem to have hit da Trib (the date of the correction ironic in light of your abuse of our First Amendment rights).
Based on information that you continue to maintain on your website, I might have caught one of the few trains that go through Ohio (and in the middle of the night) to Chicago to see the film “The Halliday Brand” only to find that tonight’s screening had been canceled.
You published your correction on another page.
What is your correction policy?
Consider the citizens.
—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
From: CTC-YourMoney [mailto:YourMoney@tribune.com]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 5:04 PM
To: Greg Fisher
Subject: RE: credit score, utilization ratio, Chicago Tribune II
Dear Mr. Fisher:
After discussing your concerns with FICO, we’re satisfied with Carolyn Bigda’s column. Thank you for writing.
Kind regards,
Pete Reinwald
Content editor
Consumer finance
Chicago Tribune
Tribune Newspapers
From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 11:33 AM
To: Sam Zell, Tribune Company; Sam Zell, Tribune Company (alt)
Cc: László Hajmási, DailyRumor.org; Barry Paperno, FICO; Craig Watts, Fair Isaac; John Ulzheimer, The Ulzheimer Group; Jane Hirt, vice president, managing editor, Chicago Tribune; Gary Weitman, SVP, corporate relations, Tribune Company; Elliot Raphaelson, columnist, Tribune Media Services, Tribune Company; Carolyn Bigda, columnist, Chicago Tribune; Gerould W. Kern, senior vice-president and editor, Chicago Tribune
Subject: RE: credit score, utilization ratio, Chicago Tribune II
Credit score expert John Ulzheimer calls the overstatement of the importance of credit utilization ratio a myth. Now there is a copy of your inaccurate article on—get this—DailyRumor.org.
Oh, the irony.
And, there is even a link to your piece on the myFICO Facebook page.
Oh, the ultimate irony.
—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342
From: Greg Fisher [mailto:greg@pagea2.com]
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Carolyn Bigda, columnist, Chicago Tribune
Subject: credit score, utilization ratio, Chicago Tribune
In error, you wrote, “Sixty-five percent of your score depends on just two things — your payment history and the amount you borrow compared with the total credit available to you (what’s known as a credit utilization ratio).”
That may be what Wikipedia says, but you are incorrect. See http://www.myfico.com/CreditEducation/WhatsInYourScore.aspx. The proportions of credit lines used and installment loan amounts still owing are only two of 6 items in the category that makes up 30 percent of the score. Indeed, the number of accounts with balances is in that category, but has nothing to do with any ratio.
Where will the correction appear?
—
Greg Fisher
Page A2
pagea2.com
PO Box 342
Dayton, Ohio 45409-0342